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kwok
February 23rd, 2003, 10:22 PM
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i don't want to be an ass and always critisize but i think i should let you know how i felt about you guys on the last show...
first of all...nothing against any of you specifically... just saying what i feel.... i think that without a doubt.... the biggest problem with your band is your drummer.... he cannot keep time very well... he tries to play a lot of stuff but loses the time along with it.... also he cannot keep the tempo very steady either... also he was way too loud and therefore caused BonG to screw up because he couldn't hear the music ... and he wasn't singing in key for some parts of two of your songs because the hihat was so loud... i couldn't hear anything but the hihat for most of the songs... i am a drummer so of course i listen to the drumlines the most... also....... the drums was basically the only thing i could hear anyways... i think the drums need work ... and if bryce wants a drum teacher i can refer him to my friend... he is accepting students... he teaches double bass drum patterns/tricks/fills ... he is not bad of a drummer and doesn't charge very much... if you want i can introduce to you!..... i think vincent knows him... his name is hans and he played bass for two of the bands from the show... i talk about double bass drum because i saw bryce's DW 5000 double pedal haha... anyways... hihat too loud.. snare and bassdrum not loud enough...... relative to the hihat... if you want to know more just ask me to keep going hehe...
the drummer is the backbone of the band... if you saw the japanese guys in the first band... i didn't think any of the other guys were very good but the white guy... which was pretty good....... made the band sound good... just a good example just from this show...
the new songs sound pretty ok..... just i couldn't really hear it clearly because of the drumming which was way too loud.... the speakers were way too small for this show... i guess that's why... the monitors on stage were bigger than the speakers that we were listening to!!! i couldn't hear the bass drum or the bass guitar.... very well...the kino eye drummer and blackbody and some of the other guys played constant 16 double bass drum patterns but sounded like nothing... anyways...
also BonG and the rocky guy had the same problem... they both don't look "cool" on stage... look so unatural.... he tries too hard to have "stage wind"... but cannot achieve... so should work on that...... that rocky guy .... is worse though...but both similar problem.... i don't know much about how to improve... just an observation...i think that kino eye singer had good stage presence...maybe could just learn from other people i guess...i couldn't hear anything on bass or guitar to talk about so yeah....
but BonG was good as usual... when he could hear the music.... and sang in key... the bass wasn't too loud this time at least... you guys played better than last time though... but i guess it is the equipment's problem this time... i asked the mixer operator to turn up the bass drum and he said the speaker will not allow it... i don't know... anyways....... tell me what you think of my comments... i was at the whole show....... want to know what you think of what i said... when you going to post the new songs on the internet??
who was that guy that played instead of bryce before with the glasses?? ... he played a "drumsolo" at the chinatown show... did he get kicked out?? just wondering...
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vii
February 24th, 2003, 12:07 AM
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hey, thanks for your comments. i had a hard time hearing anything on stage too hahahah all i could hear was a big mush of something... drums, bass, vocals... all mixed up. but i was tired as hell by the time i got on... was more dazed than anything after a whole day of loading in and setting up...
about the monitors and the speakers: those were actually the correct rating for the show, in fact, even louder bands have used the same rig and have had pretty good sound. the company in charge of doing the sound is actually really reliable for that. if anythign it would've been bass or lower midrange of the guitar that drowned out the bass drum as during some band's sets, when i went up to turn down the bass of the guitar amps and bass, the drums cleared up immediately. i think i was kind of over cautious and turned down the bass and guitars a bit too much for our set though... i don't want to blame the equipment at all, instead it'd probably be the lack of experience in setting the equipment to yield good results. but what the hey, the sound guy's never heard our songs, so i pretty much was left to his discretion of what good sound for the songs were (^.^" he did a great job of running the show nevertheless... either way, i was kind of prepared for a vocal and drum heavy volume mix... don't know why, that's just the way they do it these days (at least in the past few concerts i've been to). any problem with the sound would've been due to the tampering of equipment after the soundcheck... i recommended bands to leave all settings as we had them in the first band (which happened also to be the only band that followed this suggestion)... but they didn't take the advice. the company's www.fmsystems.net they're professionals and know what they do... well.
hrmm about the drums... well.. i know shit about drumming hahahah hans could probably tell you that too anyway, yeah, that wasn't his double pedal... that's all i know hahaha he was setting that up for the next band because we were sharing some equipment... in fact, i don't think any of our songs currently have double kick drum parts... at least not regularly...
i'm glad you do like the new songs though. we'll be working on recording them in the next little while after we finalize some parts here and there. but performance-wise, if anything, that's as natural as it gets for bon-g... i mean, what he did there wasn't pushed or practiced or anything like that... it's just another side of him that you don't see everyday hahaha. i'm glad he gets to let it out during shows because it's really fun watching from where i stand too. it's not conventional, that much i know hahaha. but yeah, that's just what he's been doing recently... i don't think he was conciously thinking "i want to have a stage presence" as much as he was just trying to enjoy the moment... i'm glad he enjoys and is comfortable enough on stage to jump around and do whatever he feels like... afterall, that's what rock'n'roll's about. you gotta realize man... we're not cool and we know that (well, most of us know hahahah). we just love what we do and do it whenever we have the chance to.
the other guy at chinatown was joe. he wasn't kicked out at all... he's still a good friend of the band and he came to watch the show too. long story short, bryce left for japan in 2001 summer, joe started filling in then, and then 2002 summer joe went to japan for 8 months, and bryce came back... japan seems to be our band's worst enemy for drummers :P
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Rutsu
February 24th, 2003, 1:22 PM
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Thanks again. First of all, I want to thank the band for a great show. Now, to get to this drumming business. I'm known to speed up during shows for 3 main reasons: 1) I have an anxiety disorder 2) Without a monitor I can't hear shit (especially at the last show) 3) Sometimes all I can hear is the bass and if he speeds up (like he's known to do) then I just go with him cuz I can't hear anything else.
As to "trying to play a lot of stuff", I think that part's wrong. I usually don't try to throw in a lot of different things in my patterns cuz I know I'm not that good. At the last show, the way the 2 toms were set-up it was even harder for me to play "a lot of stuff" because I wasn't comfortable with rolling off the 1st tom to the 2nd. I've been working on new things here and there but I guess it's just not good enough for some people. As vii said, the double-pass pedal isn't mine, although I used it twice in the show. Hi-hat...for sure it was loud. I knew that too and I looked at the soundman to try to see if he could lower the level on that but I guess he didn't. I think in a room like that it doesn't need a mic. Oh well, we learn new things at every show!
rum teacher? I don't want to pay $$ for a drum teacher. I've never taken a lesson in my life and probably you can tell from my performance, but I don't want to change that. Drumming comes from the heart and what I play is what I have learned and acquired by myself. I don't want to learn other people's patterns or fills or anything like that. As to learning basic things, I have enough drummer friends to teach me that stuff FOR FREE. If you're all that you could teach me too!
Well, I welcome your band to come play in a future show. We'd like to hear how you guys sound, cuz we're still having problems perfecting the perfect blend of volume, sound, style, and all that other stuff required to be a good band. Please teach us!
Also, you like to bring back a lot of the old players (Joe, Sandy). Are you a die-hard fan of theirs? Just wondering. They're still friends, but that part of the band's history is...well, HISTORY.
I'll work on keeping a SOLID beat in the future, and I won't make Bon-G screw up. I'm sorry, Bon-G. I suck. I'm the band's problem. Maybe I should kick myself out.
Anyways, thanks for the comments, we'll be sure to watch out for that stuff in the future, but I'm not going anywhere and nobody from the past is coming back...so I guess you'll....I mean, we'll have to deal with it. As to keeping time, we'll work with the bass player, getting a monitor so i can hear what the band is playing...and I'll work on it by myself too. However, at the live shows, if my anxiety disorder kicks-in and I speed up and you complain about how I haven't worked on improving....then we have a problem.
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Rutsu
February 24th, 2003, 1:22 PM
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Oh yeah, kwok, I threw my sticks out at the end of the show....did one of them hit you?
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kwok
February 24th, 2003, 3:24 PM
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hey... so rutsu is bryce??
ok ... i just have a few comebacks to what you said... and since you were so euphemistic in your reply in telling me that i suck... i will tell you straight up...... i suck....... i am worse than all the drummers in the show... and if you want to know... you can ask all the guys that have seen me play... kino eye has... and hans has... and i won't be performing until i am good enough... hopefully next year???
and now to the "comebacks"... if you had an anxiety problem...... which i assume meant being nervous... then well... how do you have the courage to throw your sticks?? ... i personally would feel that is an outragous thing to do...and no it didn't hit me... but it could have hit other people...should be careful of a unecessary law suit... if you watch pros... they throw it backwards...where there is no people... anyways... i didn't think throwing the sticks was a very good idea...sticks are expensive...the sticks i buy are 12 dollars a pair... and again i tell i have nothing against you... and so i don't know why you felt insulted when i gave you my opinion on your drummming... which is why this message board was made in the first place??? .. if you are expecting good comments .... you have to work for it... then you will get them if you deserve them... it is very discouraging for me to see your negative comments towards me... a fan of your band... practicing more ... a lot more than you do now will cure those "anxiety attacks" you have...
and the second and third point are of the same reason... you couldn't hear anything... and the bass is the only thing you can hear... i think ..if you can do it or not i didn't say... but if you played a little softer then you wouldn't have had the same problem...that takes practice... softer and same tempo opposed to softer and slowing down... also... if you both can't keep time well you should tell your bass player to get a metronome and practice with it... it is only reasonable to do so... but drum metronomes are so damn expensive...
by a lot of stuff .... i was trying to be indirectly pointing out something... i felt if i told you directly you would have a offended response like you did in your reply.. .... if you are nervous... you should be more conservative, as that helps in keeping time and not screwing up... and you didn't play a lot of stuff.. but you sped up/slowed down everytime you did something that isn't the pattern to keep time...which isn't a lot of stuff...and again i have nothing against you personally...
i have never had a teacher either... so i know what you mean... but if you have drummer friends you should go bug them a lot... and learning other's patterns doesn't mean using it... just means having more things in your arsenal...and learning the independance/basics from those patterns and you could use them to build on your own patterns .... be more open minded!!!...
we were going to play but vincent said there was no room... haha....... i wasn't going to play though... because i suck... and hans was going to play instead... and he would teach you ... and 18 dollars an hour isn't much... he knows a lot to teach!!... i wouldn't dare teach someone that gets insulted when i give them negative comments on their drumming... besides i am only 19...
and joe...... i see him a lot but not on your website... so i was just wondering... and i saw him play for you guys like 3 times... more than you ... so i was just asking...also if i am correct he played in your recordings on your website... some of them anyways... and sandy and rocky.. i don't know...... just shows that i have watched many of your shows... haha... but sandy was a good contribution in my opinion... for whatever style you had going before... well for that first show i saw of you guys... i thought you guys were far better than all the other bands there... since you played originals and BonG was great that day... and well... yes BonG wasn't cool looking on stage... but as long as you enjoy yourself... i think that is important ... but he looked a little pissed off when the other people jumped up and ran around...
all in all an ok performance...besides the technical flaws... and i have no experience with sound... i just know how to play so you guys are way above me on this and every other aspect probably... hope to hear the recordings soon!! since i couldn't really hear new songs at the show...
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Jeff
February 24th, 2003, 5:33 PM
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I hate people who talk like pros when they're just amateurs themselves. Bullshitting on webpages doesn't mean anything. Although I don't know Bryce personally, I think you're a jerk. I also attended the bandshow and I agree that the sound wasn't good.
If you have so much to talk about, I'd like to see you play at a live and keep a solid beat throughout all the songs. What band are you in? If you suck as much as you say you do, go home and practice some more, and keep your mouth shut. I'd rather be inspired by your performance, rather than your words.
Criticizing is ok, but all the bands at that show were amateurs. Instead of saying what you did (talking shit about what how they played) you should give them more encouragement and words of wisdom.
By the way, I don't care how much your drumsticks cost. That's totally unrelated to anything. Drummers can throw whatever the hell they wanna throw. I've seen many pros throw sticks into the crowd. It's one way to get the crowd involved...I don't think they all throw them backwards... and throwing sticks doesn't make you a pro.
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kwok
February 24th, 2003, 6:05 PM
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comments accepted...
sorry
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87
February 24th, 2003, 6:27 PM
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Bon-g was pissed? Maybe I missed something cause I went up when he yelled "Come up" a la A.W.K.
Comments are comments. Sometimes they are hard to take when they are criticisms, especially when they are unaccompanied by compliments. No one really likes hearing criticisms. I never do.
Bandshows are for fun. But maybe Kwok sees that ei-51 is a band that will go somewhere. And feels that there are some things that are preventing the band from doing so? I don't know.
Anyhow, I really really liked your performace. I was the most into it compared to any other band show that you did. I was right up front so I could only mostly hear Luby, Bon-g and Bryce, but when I went out for a bit (outside the ballroom), things sounded good to me.
Nice show guys! (*^-^*)
I enjoyed it a lot!
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vii
February 24th, 2003, 6:44 PM
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hey kwok: just to let you know, i accept your comments for what they are because they're really valuable to me as a musician. and whether it was the technical stuff or the opinions, those are all valid and i truly thank you for them. as such, other members are entitled to their own thoughts on your opinions as well...
anyway, just to keep things straight, bryce played on every single track on the website.
the only reason i took down the old demos with joe is because currently he's not active in our shows, but he's still part of our family at least that's the way i'd like to see it.
anyway, don't let any of these other guys discourage you from posting your comments, i mean, it's newton's second law (sorry for sounding like a nerd)... but for every compliment there's an equal and opposite criticism :P
and as 87 said, i respect your comments because i do feel that you respect our music. which is something that means alot to me as one of the band's founders. if anything, your high expectations of us lays out a few more goals for us to aim at. thnx
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Bon-G
February 24th, 2003, 8:32 PM
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haha that's right, i don't look cool on stage, but then i am not handsome, so i can't help it, maybe i will dress better next time, as for the stage wind, i think i am improving a lot already, i don't even move at all during the early shows in the past, but now i think i am getting better in that area, of course, after watching the video of the show, i think sometimes i do look unnatural, and i think i am going to improve on that in the future
on the other hand, u said that i look pissed when the other people are jumping up on stage? haha actually i invited them to join me to jump around on stage, so i actually enjoyed them coming up on stage and have fun with us, but then maybe i looked like i am pissed off, but then i am actually not pissed off at all during the entire show, haha
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lemon
February 24th, 2003, 8:37 PM
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u don't have to be handsome to look cool on the stage man. I think your "spare tire" is ur main problem HAhAHHAaa....just go "- fat".
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Rutsu
February 24th, 2003, 8:58 PM
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Kwok,
I never implied that you "suck". That part came out by yourself. I wasn't even pissed off by your comments. I took all of it in stride and I know I can't please everybody. Of course I got compliments that night and some comments, so it doesn't really phase me. I'll still do what I do. It's good that you've seen so many shows and watched how the band has grown since.
As to the anxiety disorder, that was just a shot of sarcasm that I guess you didn't catch. I know what I did wrong at that show (and trust me....I screwed up bad 2 times!) but I don't think that makes me "the biggest problem of the band" Like vii said, the recordings you downloaded and listened to on this site are of me playing. Soon we'll be recording the stuff that we played at the show too, and maybe then you can hear what it sounds like when WE don't mess up. I'm not a good drummer either, but I'm free to make mistakes. I'm not a pro!! I started playing drums when vii came up to me one day and asked, "hey man, wanna play drums?" I thought it looked cool, jumped on a set and started playing. I didn't get my own drum set until years later!
Anyways, see you at the next show and download the new songs once we put them up. You should play at the next show anyways...nobody cares how young or how good you are....I played didn't I?
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50-cent
February 24th, 2003, 9:00 PM
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Who the fuck is Jeff? He's confused... doesn't even know who's talking between Rutsu and Kwok. Get the story straight dude! And your head out of your ass. As far as the shit-flinging goes, everyone's entitled to your own opinions, so I'm not gonna start any "ban so-and-so" rallies, but, for fuck's sake, remember y'all and everybody else at your shows are amateurs and should be doing it for the fun of it. Stop criticizing each other except positively, cuz y'all would be lucky to have even one of your "friends" (here I'm referring to that guy you knew through that guy who you met who fucked that girl you knew who's the friend of that other friend of yours) make it to the big time. Later, wankstas.
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50-cent
February 24th, 2003, 9:08 PM
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Jeff,
I wanna apologize to you. After posting my comments, I realized that you were stomping on someon's "Kok". You got the story straight, I just didn't spend enough time reading your post after reading all the other bullshit that was posted before you. My bad... hope we're cool... holla.
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jl
February 25th, 2003, 12:02 AM
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Whoa! First time listening to all you guys ... feels like i've been missing lots!!! Bon-G rocks. He looks pissed because he's MEAN ... do u get it? He's a badass. btw I don't get shit what you're singing about cause i don't know cantonese. Would u mind if u posted some chinese lyrics? If u have no time, i can help out too ...
But overall, it sounds totally awesome. Most interesting of all bands that played, or maybe i'm just biased. I know it's a lot of work, and you guys are tired and all that, but it's cool.
There were a few moments when i could hear the guitars playing something cool, but mostly the focus of what i heard was on the drummer and the singer. Maybe it's the equipment like other ppl said
Good job dudes. It's great to see such good band chemistry ...
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